Beyond the Quadcast has a Conversation with Andriel Dees

The role of Human Resources (HR) in higher education is evolving. No longer just a transactional function, HR professionals are now key players in shaping institutional culture, fostering diversity, and ensuring that hiring practices align with long-term strategic goals. In a recent episode of Beyond the Quadcast, we had the pleasure of speaking with Andriel Dees, Vice President for Executive Search at Greenwood Asher & Associates, about the challenges and opportunities HR leaders face in higher ed.

HR as a Culture Creator

HR leaders play a pivotal role in defining the workplace experience for faculty, staff, and students.
Institutional storytelling can help HR professionals understand the historical and cultural identity of their campuses.
Onboarding should include institutional legacy, key figures, and cultural elements that shape the university experience.

Strategic Workforce Planning in Higher Ed

HR leaders must align recruitment with institutional goals by conducting listening sessions and creating data-driven hiring strategies.
A diverse and equitable hiring process is key to fostering innovation and student success.
Succession planning should be intentional, ensuring that incoming faculty and staff reflect student demographics.

Retention and Employee Well-being

Universities must go beyond traditional exit interviews and implement stay interviews to assess employee satisfaction and prevent burnout.
Career development opportunities, cross-training, and fellowships can help retain talent.
HR should actively collaborate with leadership to address workload balance and improve workplace culture.

Adapting to the Changing Higher Ed Landscape

HR must respond to trends such as declining enrollment, legislative changes, and hybrid work models.
AI and automation will play an increasing role in recruitment and workforce planning.
Investment in HR talent is crucial as departments face high turnover and staffing shortages.

Inclusion and Institutional Change

Universities must continue to champion diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) despite shifting political landscapes.
HR professionals can use data to track progress on hiring and retention goals.
Fostering an inclusive environment ensures long-term student and staff engagement.

HR Toolkit for Higher Education Professionals

Want a more in-depth guide to best practices in HR for higher education? Download our exclusive HR Toolkit for Higher Education Professionals, a resource designed to help HR leaders navigate recruitment, retention, and institutional change.

Listen to the Full Episode

Tune in to the full conversation with Andriel Dees on Beyond the Quadcast for deeper insights into HR’s evolving role in higher education. Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Music.

Full Transcript of the Podcast Episode

Misty Evans (00:00)

Welcome to Beyond the Quadcast, where we explore the stories, innovations, and initiatives shaping higher education. I’m Misty Evans, a staff writer at Insight into Diversity Magazine, passionate about uncovering the unique projects and voices driving change on campuses nationwide.

Katy Abrams (00:17)

And I’m Katy Abrams, the executive editor at Insight Into Diversity. I’m so excited to dive into conversations that highlight the creativity and dedication behind the program shaping the future of higher ed.

Misty Evans (00:31)

Today we’re thrilled to welcome Andriel Dees, Vice President for Executive Search at Greenwood Asher & Associates. In the upcoming issue of Insight into Diversity, Andriel is launching Ask a Recruiter and focuses the initial column on human resources positions.

Katy Abrams (00:49)

We’ll talk about strategies for human resources professionals to align with institutional goals, adapt to recruit and retain employees in the changing and challenging landscape of higher education and more. So let’s get started.

Andriel, could you tell us a little bit about your background and your current role?

Andriel Dees (01:09)

Sure, thanks so much Katy and Misty for inviting me on. And it’s really an honor to be connected with Insight into diversity. I’ve been a big fan for probably the whole time that I’ve been in higher education. So for the last 20 years, prior to me moving into this role as a vice president and executive search, I was a chief diversity officer for four different institutions.

So I’ve had a very intimate role with the work of diversity, equity and inclusion, both on the employee side, but also on the student side. My last position, I was working at Minnesota State Colleges and university system. And there I had a complete portfolio, which was titled Equity 2030. And that was the strategy for Minnesota State in terms of addressing gaps throughout the system of the 33 colleges and universities and really focusing on ensuring that all students have an opportunity to succeed regardless of how they come in with whether they’re in the technical or community college setting or in the university setting. Just making sure that Minnesota State holds itself tried and true and accountable for ensuring those students are successful. And part of that includes ensuring that we have great employees at the institutions. And so when I had the opportunity to connect the dots with human resources and then now executive recruiting, it just made the next step for me pretty natural. The other thing is I’m also a recovering employment attorney. So my first 10 years of life, yeah, I was involved in, you know, hiring and firing and everything in between. So this role really is nice because it’s just about really bringing the best out in people and placing them in places they want to go.

Katy Abrams (03:02)

Wow.

Misty Evans (03:17)

I love that. That’s amazing. And what a background. Isn’t it interesting how life takes us into so many different directions?

Andriel Dees (03:24)

Yeah. For sure, yeah, yeah, it’s kind of a full circle moment. So it feels really great.

Misty Evans (03:33)

I love that.

Katy Abrams (03:36)

So can you tell us a little bit about what a day looks like for you in the current role?.

Andriel Dees (03:41)

Sure. So here at Greenwood Asher and Associates, we work nationally throughout the country with a variety of universities, colleges, university systems, really to be what I call more high touch in that space of searching for the right people for the for our clients. And the majority of the positions are in executive management roles, so presidents, chancellors, vice presidential roles. But we also serve the client with other unique structures, some professorships in some areas that might be hard to find. We really pride ourselves in having a wide variety of a database in terms of the ability to go in that database and have really well established relationships, really garnering the legacy of what Jan Greenwood and Betty Asher put forth 20 years ago when they started this firm. So it’s really an honor to be with them. A day of the life for me as a vice president, I am responsible for managing searches. So we, you know, my day really consists of working with the different teams that we have on the searches and really following through on the different tasks, making sure that we’re connecting the dots as it relates to whatever time and space we have with respect to that search process. And that’s really soup to nuts. Everything from starting the search with the contracts to ending the search with the announcement of the candidate that’s been chosen. And it varies from day to day. Some days I will have conversations with search committees, reviewing candidates, interviewing candidates. As I mentioned, because we work in a team structure, I have a consultant that works with me that really gets the candidates all ready for and prepped for interviews. They do a lot of the sourcing for us, but I am more of kind of the person that connects with the hiring authority and the search chair to make sure that we’re answering any questions that they have and ensuring a really seamless process. So yeah, day to day, it’s kind of very, very, but it’s a great experience so far. I just started back in September. So I am probably still in a little bit of a honeymoon phase, but I will say that the team and the firm has just been so wonderful to work with. Everyone is so dedicated to this work and really dedicated to the perspective of high quality and high touch. And I think that’s what makes us unique. So, yeah.

Katy Abrams (06:56)

That’s really fantastic to hear. And it sounds like you get to really be very deeply involved in those processes. So I think that sounds like, it sounds like it’s both challenging and really rewarding.

Andriel Dees (07:10)

Yes, yeah, that’s a great way to look at it is because we’re supporting a process that, you know, in some cases, some universities, as much as everybody wants to believe that they can really, you know, step out and make particularly hiring, the hiring process really kind of happen. there’s I what I’ve learned just in the four and a half months I’ve been here has been that if there’s a lot of deeper layers and making sure that you’re bringing a high quality level of candidate to the process while putting the word out by ads is part of it, a lot of it is around networking, but also ensuring, as we talk about insight into diversity, ensuring that we have a very diverse pool of candidates as well. And I think that is something you really can’t leave to just osmosis. really have to…be intentional and I really enjoy the fact that we have never wavered from that mantra and really put forth a strong efforts to go out and actually find diverse applicants for these positions.

Misty Evans (08:21)

Yeah, it’s so important because as we all know, just being working adults, having the right person in the right job makes all the difference in the culture of the company or the university, you know, just across the board. I can’t think of anything more important than, you know, creating the culture you want than hiring the right people.

Katy Abrams (08:47)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and that actually really kind of circles us back to the column that you’re going to start writing for us. We’re very excited. The March issue is going to have, yeah, it’s going to have the very first Ask a Recruiter with Andriel Dees column. And in that column, you’re going to be focusing on, in particular, human resources, which really connect to that idea of making sure that people are hiring quality candidates, that hiring processes are working well, that people are able to retain and recruit employees, and also to maintain that culture of making sure that we have an accessible and equitable hiring process. So we’re very excited to learn some more about that with you. And I wonder in particular, if we’re talking about climate and culture, what do you see as sort of a key role that human resources plays in shaping that positive work culture?

Andriel Dees (10:01)

Yeah, thanks for the question. know, they are, human resources is basically key to ensuring that each organization has a really viable and vibrant culture. It’s really interesting to see now, even in terms of the titles that are coming up, how Vice President for Human Resources and Culture or People Culture are being incorporated into the titles. And what’s happening is that the idea of culture is really being elevated and integrated into people that are people leading. And so it is extremely vital because you really can’t have an organization or specifically a university or a college that isn’t going to be a great student experience without great employees. And that’s from not just the administrative role, but from the leadership roles on down. You know that, and you’ll remember, and I always think about even my college career when I went out to Hampton University, you always remember those special people that really make a difference in your life as a student.

Katy Abrams (11:17)

Yes.

Absolutely, I remember several. I bet Misty does too, yeah.

Andriel Dees (11:23)

Yeah.

Misty Evans (11:24)

Yeah, one of my college friends and I regularly talk about our anthropology professor because she was amazing and she just made our experience so wonderful.

Andriel Dees (11:31)

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And so you’re thinking about my favorite professor or my favorite administrator, or maybe, you know, there was a woman that was that if you went to school at Hampton University, probably between like the mid 80s to like well into probably the 2000s, there was this one just wonderful lady that was in the student union. And we call it the great gravy lady. Great. Because she would always ask you, want some more gravy, baby? And she was the sweetest lady.

Andriel Dees (12:06)

And we loved her. she was so anybody that went to Hampton, if you say the gravy lady or gravy baby, they know exactly who you’re talking about because she was just this warm spirit. And so, you know, when you think about think about those experiences, the experiences that you had in college are really, you know, who are the people that were surrounded by you? Not just not just your fellow students, but but the people that supported you. And so when you’re thinking about that,

Katy Abrams (12:06)

I love her already!

Andriel Dees (12:35)

that leader for human resources, that person really needs to be in touch with the culture of the organization. They’ve got to know that history. They’ve got to know those stories, or they’ve got to learn about what it’s really going to take to make the, not just make the college amazing and great at that point in time, but historically what has made the college a very unique experience for all that are a part of it.

And so, you know, human resource leaders are really vital to those roles and they’re connectors to different parts of the organization. They’re going to know, you know, who are the amazing professors and they are going to know who are also the amazing people that work through the amazing staff that makes everything click. And

So also be adept and know that, you know, as much as we love to talk about our times in history, we know that the college of today and tomorrow is a much different structure. We know that there’s a lot more hybrid, both in the student experience as well as the employee experience. So how does that play into, again, still equating into a very high level experience for everybody that’s there?

This people leader experience is really going to be vital for us, not just in 2025, but definitely beyond. It’s going to be really critical because we’re in a change management time right now.

Misty Evans (14:15)

Yeah, that’s I’ve never thought of HR as like experience creation before, but that’s exactly what you’re doing.

Katy Abrams (14:22)

Well, and I love so much that you mentioned that the HR leaders who are looking for people to fill those roles need to know those institutional stories. We’ve been talking a lot lately about storytelling and the ways in which storytelling can bridge so many divides and bring so many people together. And so I love that idea of when a new human resources leader comes into an institution.

It does make me wonder, is there an element of telling the institutional stories about those special people and what they meant and what they do for the community to kind of help them get a sense of the culture there and help them sort of get the lay of the land? Right, is that something that happens?

Misty Evans (15:11)

Like an onboarding? What would the onboarding look like?

Andriel Dees (15:15)

Exactly. Right.

Misty Evans (15:17)

Well, that’s such a good point, Katy. What would that onboarding look like? Of like, these are our people, this is our community, here’s what you need to know. Here’s the gravy lady. We love the gravy lady. Like we need more like her, you know, because stories, they do, they shape an experience. They shape your memory of the experience, you know, and whether or not you want your kids to go to the same university you went to.

Andriel Dees (15:41)

Right, right, exactly.

Yeah, so you’re right. I mean, you know, for historically, I think many people have thought about human resources in terms of the transactional perspective. And the good news is that the profession itself really has evolved. I mean, when you talk to people that are in human resources, particularly those that are leaders in the space, they see themselves very much tied to the culture of the organization. They see themselves as really helping to

develop some of the culture of the organization. They’re partnering with provosts, they’re partnering with facilities and CFOs, but they’re also connecting with the professoriates and they’re also connecting with staff and just to find out because they know that in order for that staff to feel as if they’re bringing value to the organization, they’re going to have to not work in a siloed fashion and just think of this as a nine to five job and they go.

they see something special about being a part of the organization. And so I think that’s really something that when you think about those opportunities for human resource leaders to really elevate, they really need to be in the know and a part of the organization. These are things that we actually take into account of as an executive search firm, when we’re coming in to provide the service, we don’t wanna just come in and give the blanket kind of service. We really wanna understand what’s unique about the organization. We conduct listening sessions with a variety of folks just to make sure that we’re capturing the kind of people that would really relish in…and be an amazing person that for the organization and for themselves as well. These are really important things to consider.

Misty Evans (17:42)

Yeah.

How so how to Oh, sorry, Katy. Oh, I was gonna say, um, what would you what strategy? What strategies would you recommend for HR leaders to for this process to effectively align workforce planning with institutional goals? Like, like, what does that look like? Right? When you’re coming in, and you’re talking to the university, and you’re trying to understand who they are, what they, like, you know, who they want in those positions. Like, how does all of that go? I’m curious what that process looks

Andriel Dees (18:21)

Yeah, no, that’s a really good question. You know, I think at the end of the day, really want what we have found so far with working in these, for these types of positions. You know, it’s a person that really, and I hate to use the phrase strategic thinker, but they really have to be, they really have to think about the university as a whole. They have to have a connection with, their fellow leaders and help understand kind of what makes this university uniquely special. But in addition to that, they also have to have a good adeptness of what’s happening within the broader environment, whether it’s within the local community or whether it’s in the state or federal perspectives, because those are things that still matter and have an effect in terms of how… how you go about dealing with the people business of the organization and ensuring that you want to make sure that if the employees feel that this is a special place, that new HR leader wants to embrace that perspective. And as well as think about how to collaborate and innovate as well. So these are really going to be critical pieces as we move forward, particularly in 2025 and beyond, because

We’re seeing so many changes in higher education. We know that enrollment is somewhat in a volatile situation, and that affects how an organization moves forward. And so a HR leader is going to be knowledgeable and connect with their enrollment management leaders about what is it going to take to make sure that the college experience is something that is still robust and exciting for their students. Understanding what the students are bringing to the table. And then understanding that your students will also, and can be, your employees as well. There’s a lot of student workers that are out there. And in fact, with the number of graduate students and a lot of our university structures, they are really galvanizing and we’re starting to see a lot of work around unionization.

And not to take that as a threat, but to look at it as an opportunity to have more robust conversations to understand how and why graduate students or just student workers in general want to feel connected to have a deeper connection to the university and feel valued as far as their worth is concerned. So yeah, the leader is going to really have to understand that significantly.

Misty Evans (21:09)

right, because it’s not.

Yeah, because after you get them, need to retain them. like, so how do you, how do you, cause like another thing that we’ve been talking about a lot at Insight is burnout, employee burnout. And so once you get the employees, once you get the students in, it, then it turns into like, how do we make everybody happy? How do they go, you know, how do we make sure that they’re thriving here?

Katy Abrams (21:14)

Definitely.

Andriel Dees (21:17)

Yes.

Misty Evans (21:40)

So what does that look like? How can universities kind of foster the sense of thriving and reducing burnout and regardless of their work situation?

Katy Abrams (21:52)

And is that something that an HR officer would be able to have an impact on?

Misty Evans (22:01)

Good question.

Andriel Dees (22:01)

Good question. Yeah, thank you for the question and thank you for the statements. This issue of retention is definitely at the forefront of people in human resource management. And I think the adept human resource leader will definitely think about different ways and innovative ways to think about what retention looks like. Because historically, you know,

Universities are very different, but for the most part, the only real career trajectory that exists in the university structure is a professor. You can see how your career trajectory can go. Everyone else kind of really doesn’t have that career trajectory. And so it becomes, it really does fall on human resources and leaders within the organization to think about.

What are those career trajectories that we can think about to ensure that we’re giving people a couple of things? One, a balance of work that’s exciting to them and also benefits the organization at the same time. But then in terms of retention, what are the needs of the organization? The needs are also going to morph and change over time. But for each individual employee,

Who’s sitting down and having those conversations about professional development? Is that part of the performance management structure? Are the goal setting processes being put in place? Many organizations are starting to do what they call stay interviews instead of exit interviews, because by the time you get to exit interviews, it’s a little too late.

Katy Abrams (23:50)

And I heard that term for the first time recently, and I’m not sure that I totally understand how that happens. Can you tell us a little bit more about what a stay interview encompasses and how that’s useful?

Andriel Dees (24:05)

Yeah, well, it’s really taken the idea of having a conversation really as part of, I would say, more of the performance management structure. So you’re not necessarily talking about talking to a person about their performance, so to speak, but you’re talking about what’s how is your experience? What’s the climate like? How’s the culture for that particular employee?

What are some of the successes that they’ve been able to see and partake of? And then what are some of the challenges? And trying to get a, being very proactive in terms of having those conversations. And the reason I say it’s part of performance management, but it’s kind of not because you really don’t want to have a stay interview while you’re also talking compensation and review structure. You want to have those conversations at a different point in time to…

Katy Abrams (24:52)

Sure.

Andriel Dees (24:57)

One, make sure that you’re really focused on what can the organization be doing for that person and seeing how much they are valued. So those are the kind of conversations that you get. Some universities are starting to have, it’s still a little bit of a slow uphill perspective, but the concept has been around for a long time. I would credit my, some of my former colleagues at Minnesota state for, actually introducing me to the concept. And I had a, an amazing, compliance officer that worked for me. And she was always advocating for this type of structure to being in terms of that stay interview process, because again, timing is everything. And if you’re waiting till the exit interview prop to have these conversations you’ve lost your employee already and you’ve, you know, it’s, then on the other side of that too is as much as we want to retain and keep, sometimes it, because we do work in a bit of a flat structure, sometimes we can celebrate the fact that we’ve done everything we can to ensure the highest level of professional development for that employee so that they can move to that next step. Sometimes it’s with the organization.

Sometimes it’s not. But as long as they can walk away saying, I had a great experience, that can also be another opportunity when you’re thinking about stay interviews as well.

Katy Abrams (26:35)

You mentioned professional development a couple of times, and I know that for a lot of HR professionals, there’s that’s sort of one piece in their toolkit of how to retain employees, how to keep them growing and thriving and interested.

I know that it’s really challenging to retain employees in an academic landscape, right? Because there’s so many limitations to what you can offer employees, how to incentivize employees. It’s very different than in a corporate world or small business, those kinds of things. And I wonder if there are any other things that you can sort of suggest to HR professionals who are trying to think outside the box, trying to think of new strategies to sort of retain people with the limited kind of resources and abilities that they’ve got.

Andriel Dees (27:33)

Yeah, thank you for the question. You know, I actually think in terms of thinking outside the box, you know, there’s great opportunity to engage employees in academic processes that they may, that I think we historically have left for those that are faculty members. But what I found is that there is a richness in everybody that comes to a university and there may be opportunities for them to engage in different ways that, you know, can obviously support their students, but also support themselves. And so it really does take a time to just sit down and ask the employee, what are the things that really make you excited about? So for example, if you’re in student affairs,

And maybe you’ve been working very steadily in a specific area like enrollment management. But yet you’ve been thinking, wow, I really, it’s great to see what are those changes and opportunities in enrollment management. But perhaps I want to move into something that’s maybe more towards the end of a student’s career, looking at career development. Well, then why not give the gifts? you know, give an employee a chance to perhaps shadow some of their fellow employees and think about ways and resources that we can, you know, almost do some kind of cross training across the different areas. That’s something that I know to your point, Katy, that that’s been a little easier, I would think, in some other settings than a university settings, because again, we are, you know, as universities, one of the things that we struggle with is capacity. But yet, if we’re struggling with capacity, there’s always opportunities to do a lot of capacity building as well. And so this is just something to think about when you’re looking at your employee base and think about ways that they can participate in different structures. Also, as you’re thinking about thinking outside, sometimes hate to say it, but sometimes people have to leave and come back, you know, and have different experiences. There’s been a lot for particularly for many academic professionals. There are a lot of great opportunities to do different types of fellowships. There’s fellowships that have been out there for many years, mainly on the road to presidencies. But if we can think about expanding that that opportunity to not just include the road to the presidencies, but also roads to other significant leadership areas like human resources. How can we be providing ways for people to have either special projects or a little time with their workload to be able to experience those opportunities? I think there’s a lot of ways, I think, to gain engagement and to help your employees be their best selves.

Misty Evans (30:56)

I love that.

Katy Abrams (30:57)

Thanks, Andriel.

Yeah. I, you know, I’ve been thinking some about the idea of turnover and

You know, I’ve definitely heard from people and read in a lot of different places. There seems to be a pretty high turnover rate in human resources in particular. And it seems also that human resources offices in a lot of academic settings are really understaffed. They’re struggling to find enough people.

What advice could you give to a human resources office to help them in particular retain their human resources officers or recruit human resources professionals to help fill those spaces? Is there anything that those particular professionals need to help them kind of come in and want to stay?

Andriel Dees (31:53)

Yeah, thank you for the question. There’s been an interesting trajectory in terms of human resources professionals. One thing where I don’t think we’re seeing as many newer human resource or newer employees come in as human resource professionals. And so there is a bit of a gap and there may still be a bit of a lag because we are seeing a lot of our seasoned human resources professionals go into retirement. And so there is a bit of a lag there. And that does create a very stressful situation, particularly for those that are left with the portfolio and the workload. so I don’t know if there is a specific silver bullet that would allow for things to just automatically happen and pick up and everybody’s going to be happy. But I will say that, you know, as long as we can continue to think about where our opportunities to pipeline people in either those entry or mid-level positions into human resources and to find the beauty of being in a mission-driven organization.

I think that can really be a very great opportunity for human resource offices to think about. I’m sitting here and I’m talking about it, but having talked with my former colleagues over the years, it’s a lot easier said than done. But nevertheless, we have to keep trying because…

This is a vital part of the organization. And as long as universities see that as this is not just a transaction, this is really transformative, then there’s got to be a need for investing into this organization, this part of the organization, to ensure that the university itself, foundationally, is going to be strong, is going to be extremely viable. One other thing I think that is important too is, you know, connecting the dots with changing technology. I think the more adept human resource professionals are going to be in terms of elevating their portfolio with a higher level or at least a, you know, a higher level or a walking knowledge of the current and future technologies that are out there. You know, we’ve

We’ve talked about AI, we will continue to talk about AI. It’s not, it’s coming, it’s here. And so how does that get incorporated into those processes as well for ensuring that what people are feeling is if they’re not being taken over by AI, but they’re embracing and seeing how they can leverage even their understanding of it or increase their understanding of how AI works within their everyday. The more that we’re able to provide those experiences, I think we have a better chance at really engaging more people to come into the human resource profession.

Misty Evans (35:24)

Do you think that, so I come from a tech background and we were in healthcare compliance and we often talked about how compliance officials, one of the hardest parts of their job is that they kind of feel like they’re put on an island and they’re kind of like, you know, the people who are policing, you know, the workspace or the hospital. Do you feel like there could be a cultural shift in the way that people also view HR that would be helpful at all. If the story around HR was that they are culture creators, that they are, like they’re shaping the story of the university, do you feel like that’s a part of it at all? Because when I think of HR, I often think of the person who sits in the office, this was in tech, right? It’s different than higher ed, but like that sits in the office and like, hires you and fires you. Like that was like, you know, very transactional.

Katy Abrams (36:26)

That transactional thing that she was mentioning,

Andriel Dees (36:29)

Yeah.

Katy Abrams (36:29)

I understand very much where that perception comes from. I mean, I think until now I have felt that same way. I sort of thought of HR as a very transactional space and you’re describing it as having the potential to be this very transformative space which is amazing and I think Misty’s question is a great question. How can we shift the way people see that as you have shifted the way that we see it?

Andriel Dees (36:55)

Yeah.

Yeah,exactly. And it’s interesting because I do think that in different organizations or in different industries, human resources is kind of viewed as not necessarily a viable partner within the everyday experience. And sometimes it can be seen to your point as it could be seen as a barrier for viability of the organization. But yet, in a lot of it, there is still a heavy level of compliance or requirements that are a part of the work. But I also think that, and this is very similar to really why I think of DEI similarly.

You know, to have that balance of thinking about the work as being transformative, because for the organization to thrive, you know, you don’t just grab people off the street. You do have to have a process. And you do want to make sure that the process is being fair, it’s being equitable, and you’re thinking about developing the culture. And, you know, the…

It’s not just, you know, in universities, it’s not just about the widgets. That’s not what we do. We are here to, you know, elevate the minds of students. And so to think about that and who you’re bringing in, that’s a big important part. And it’s in…

And it’s equally important for us to have vibrant, excited faculty that enjoy connecting with the students as much as it is important for us to bring in people that are excited about working with the students outside of the classroom and that don’t just look at financial aid as a conundrum, but maybe are looking at it as a way for the students to help the students navigate through really what is a difficult process and take pride in that. If you find those folks, they’re amazing. But to find them, you’ve got to have people that know how to do that. And that’s where your human resource people come into place. And once they’re there, again, they can really embrace and set the tone and help set the tone around culture, ensuring that you’ve got you know, that your employees, particularly if they’re coming from diverse backgrounds, are feeling as if they have a place that makes them feel as if they’re wanted and valued. Many of our universities are in a variety of different settings, whether they’re urban or rural or smaller. And again, you know, if you are

If you’re only thinking, I just brought you in and good luck, well, then you’re really not doing your job to make sure that you’re building a culture of inclusivity. these are things that, human resources really can be a viable partner in helping to establish, maintain, and even innovate in some of those areas.

Misty Evans (40:22)

Yeah.

I love that so I’m like learning so much. But I wanted to bridge this because you mentioned DEI and we’re all we’re obviously we’re looking at a big legislative shift right now. So what what challenges are you forcing and how can HR leaders continue to champion a sense of belonging, diversity, and inclusion in a meaningful way.

Andriel Dees (41:16)

Yeah, so you said it, you were spot on. I mean, the changing landscape is here and it is really unfortunate that we have gotten to this place in terms of the not really understanding the good work that happens around diversity, equity and inclusion and that it was never meant to be exclusive is really meant to elevate of a variety of voices and perspectives to ensure everyone has an opportunity to be successful and not to demonize those or it’s more about elevating and ensuring, you know, the, again, diverse perspectives and everyone comes. But when we’re talking about that, one of the things that was really exciting when I worked at Minnesota State was when we looked at and partnered with our human resource partners, looking at the, just taking a look at the data and what we did was there was a creation of the equity scorecard and I’ll give credit where credit is due. My team was amazing in just pulling that together. But one of the key performance indicators that really stood out that needed to kind of be in a stark contrast was around what the student body was looking like in terms of the different demographics and then what the employee base was looking like. So we, it was coined as compositional diversity. so for, and that’s not going away. And when you looked at the actual numbers, there was a stark difference around the increasing number of diverse student within the various colleges and the slow lag that was happening with our employee population. what that does is it allows for the conversation to be driven by data and to also be thinking about What are those opportunities that each college can do to engage in inclusive practices and inclusive hiring practices? Thinking about ways that, what barriers may have been unintentional for not getting more diverse employees in the workforce? So these are conversations that I think still should be had.

Maybe, you know, and it’s going to be a different contextually depending on where you are in the United States. But the students still have to be served. So whether it is going to be, you know, a conversation that has the actual words or is it looking at what is, you know, or having the openness to allow for those conversations to be having.

And then actually get into what are the strategic plans? What is the act? What are the actions that you’re going to take as a result of looking at the data? Because it’s one thing to admire the data and go, my goodness, this is terrible. And then you do something else yet you want to make sure that that you’re doing kind of a both end. You’re ensuring that the, the, these conversations and that these concepts don’t necessarily die on the vine, are a continuous part of the fabric of the organization, because we really do want our organizations to thrive. And we want our students to be successful. And in order to do that, you have to think about all of the wonderful people that that yes, are core to the organization, but there’s always going to be opportunities for expansion. Like we were just talking about, we are gonna see a bit of a lag with respect to different generations becoming, moving towards retiring and then those that are coming in, that’s gonna be an opportunity as well. how is the organization, how is the university going to ensure that those that are coming in stay and enjoy their experience and feel more inclusive? they’re going to, whether we have it mandated or not, they’re going to ask the questions. They’re going to put, the onus on the organization to ensure that they feel included and welcomed and a sense of belonging. And so if we use those words to continue to generate the work, we will continue to do that.

Katy Abrams (46:09)

Yeah, think the, yeah, amazing. And again, I’m learning so much about what’s possible and the sort of overview. It’s really, it’s a big picture.

Misty Evans (46:09)

That’s a great answer.

Katy Abrams (46:27)

Thinking about human resources and its impact on a campus and also thinking about how an institution develops that inclusivity and that accessibility and develops that set of voices that reflect each other, both students and faculty, students and staff. You know, one of the things that I was thinking about recently when someone else was, we were having a conversation about the sort of need for faculty to reflect the student body, student bodies change so quickly in comparison to faculty. You’ve got a new set of students in every year, every four years, theoretically, right? They’re moving on, you’re getting new students in. With faculty and staff, I mean, if you recruit high quality people and you do a good job of retention, they can stay for 20 or 30 years. And so it does seem that the choices have to be really intentional when you do have a space open up to make sure that you’re intentionally trying to open that space up for not just the right person, but the right person who can help reflect the rest of that community. How difficult is that to balance that sort of timing issue?

Andriel Dees (47:58)

wow.

Yeah, the timing, think, is going to vary, I think, according to the university and the college itself. Because the demographic changes are happening. We’ve watched that over the last 15, 20 years. We’ve seen, excitingly, more people more diverse people come into colleges. We are starting to see a little bit of drop, particularly I think as we’re hearing more of that happening because of different either legislative actions and or judicial actions. So that’s really unfortunate. But in the meantime, as I said, the universities and colleges are still bringing in students and the students that want to be there, they want to have experiences that reflect their perspectives as well. But so to your point, the timing I think is going to be something that will be always at the forefront. I think that the timing is quite frankly now, the timing is probably over time.

But in terms of having, we’ve been having these conversations and it has been, like I said, a very slow turn. But I do think that the trends now allow for us to have a great opportunity to find amazing, vibrant professionals and leaders from a wide variety of Oregon from a wide variety of experiences. And I’m happy to say, and not to put the plug in for Greenwood Asher, but I will, is that over the course of time, we’ve had really great success in finding those diverse leaders. In fact, we just unpacked a bit of data for ourselves and found out that almost, I think it was almost two thirds of our placements were coming from diverse backgrounds. And so that’s, I think that was over the course of just the last couple of years, and that’s pretty consistent over time. people are out there, they’re committed, they want to work in these spaces, they want to lead in these spaces, and they understand the importance of being there and having presence.

And with that, knowing that they’re there can be a huge benefit for the student body. And even if a student isn’t going to see the provost or the president all the time, they may know and they may go, you know what? But I’m really proud of the fact that I see this president as somebody that I can strive to be like, or I see myself in that person or they see themselves in the professors that they see. It’s an exciting thing to be a part of. And I think that in terms of that timing, you’re always going to be, this is where I think that strong human resource professional can help anticipate and strategize with the university about what those succession plans are looking like for different parts of the institution, whether it’s strictly in the academic space where you might be seeing changing parts of a department, or you might see that happening within a different part of the organization. But being a part and being intentional in that space is really critical for that human resource leader to be a part of.

Katy Abrams (52:04)

Thanks, Andriel. Misty, have you got any other questions you’d like to ask Andriel before we wrap up?

Misty Evans (52:05)

That’s great.

Andriel Dees (52:08)

Well, thank you.

Misty Evans (52:13)

I think she covered everything that I had thought of asking before. So yeah, this was great. I learned a lot. I didn’t know half of this. So.

Katy Abrams (52:20)

Great.

Yeah, I mean, this was definitely very enlightening conversation, Andriel. And I appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with us and also your perspectives. think that they’re really important and really timely and really meaningful. know, it’s helping me to think about human resources in a different way. And, you know, this is an important, this is important work. It’s really important work. So.

Misty Evans (52:55)

It is.

Andriel Dees (52:57)

Well, Katy, Misty, thank you for the opportunity to have a conversation. I’m looking forward to hearing more from my other colleagues as Beyond the Cloudcast gets started. again, it’s exciting to be a part of the team in terms of the column that’s coming out with Ask Andriel.

Katy Abrams (53:21)

Yes, we’re so excited. Ask Andriel.

Misty Evans (53:22)

Very exciting. Yeah.

Katy Abrams (53:24)

Yes, it’s going to be fantastic. Thank you.

Andriel Dees (53:25)

Yes, yes, excited to be a part.

Misty Evans (53:27)

Yes, why?

We should have her start a chat in the forum as well and ask Andrew in our new forum. Yeah.

Katy Abrams (53:35)

Yes, yes, that would be fantastic. Yeah, our

Andriel Dees (53:40)

Okay.

Katy Abrams (53:41)

newsletter has kind of shifted into this really wonderful opportunity where now we have a chat, like a forum.

Misty Evans (53:51)

It’s like a forum, essentially.

Andriel Dees (53:53)

wow.

Katy Abrams (53:54)

space

for people to connect with each other and have conversations about these kinds of issues and it would be fantastic to have you pop in there sometime and you know see if there’s something you could lend some of your expertise I’m sure it would be really appreciated and valued.

Andriel Dees (54:11)

Happy to do so. Yes, that’d be great.

Misty Evans (54:13)

Definitely.

Katy Abrams (54:14)

Great, great. Well, Andriel, thank you so much for joining us today on Beyond the Quadcast. It’s been really amazing speaking with you. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us and we just really wish you the best as you move forward in the searches that you guys are working on at Greenwood Asher and Associates.

Misty Evans (54:33)

Yeah, thank you so much, Andriel. It so nice meeting you.

Andriel Dees (54:36)

Thank you both.

Katy Abrams (54:38)

Have a great rest of your day. Bye.

Misty Evans (54:40)

Have a great day. Bye.

Andriel Dees (54:40)

You too.

Bye.